Ups, I meant to cite the article here: "It should be a nice addition to the 850 PRO series, especially with the rise of 4K video and the extra storage it requires."
Even if you're not storing it, 1TB could get cramped depending on what other stuff you keep on the OS drive and how many 4K editing projects you have going on at the same time...
It might make more sense to just get two 1TB drives in RAID tho, on a desktop at least, but I suppose 2TB drives open up the possibility of simple 4TB arrays which could probably satisfy most usage cases.
My laptop has a single 2.5" bay and an mSATA slot. I currently have a 256GB mSATA boot drive and a 2TB Samsung HDD. I'd love to drop the HDD entirely and switch to an SSD but can't right now as I couldn't fit all my steam games on 1TB :D
the magic here depends a lot on the RAID hardware used - those 15K SAS drives are pretty awesome. Some of the newer RAID cards let you put a few of those in RAID and put an SSD in front of the array as well.
You'd have to be insane to try and edit 4K video on a hard drive. Slow as fuck, especially when you start working with multiple large clips, and 4-8 lanes of video at once for some of the more complex effects.
You likely run out of GPU and/or CPU power once you reach that many 4K streams, especially if you are handling compressed video formats like XAVC, RED and various H.264 flavors.
4k video? To heck with 4k video, having a 2TB SSD will help me get more chicks! Me: "Hey, ladies, guess who has a 2 TB SSD?" Hot ladies: "Ooooh!" *swoon* *Tents fingertips*..."Excellent!"
Calling it endurance in the chart is a little misleading. 150TB is only what Samsung will cover under warranty so 5 years or 150TB of writes, whichever comes first. Doesn't seem like a lot, but that's 50GB of writes everyday for 8 years. Very, very few people, if anyone, will surpass 150TB within 5 years.
Or 150TB before it will start shrinking usable capacity... And you're right, this shouldn't be a problem. Yet, when I think how often I do rearrangements of data on my different machines, and how often I find myself filling ssds to the brim and then emptying it, I start to worry. Maybe too much. Time will tell :-)
No, it'd be 2,000 cycles on average before you start losing cells, as GTRagnarok pointed out... Either way, this is the same rating existing drives already had, so nothing has really changed and outside of bugs like the 840 EVO's there hasn't been any glaring issues (AFAIK).
Why are you filling/emptying drives routinely? Just curious, you'd maintain optimal performance by never actually filling them completely... And if there's any sort of static data (OS) then there's also wear leveling involved.
Hopefully not, but not filling up an SSD to capacity has nothing to do with those issues... All SSD will perform better if you never fill them up 100% or partition them in such a way that there's like 15-20% of empty overprovisioned space (in addition to whatever the manufacturer tends to build in).
Honestly, 2TB of SSD is not for everyone. Personally for me, I feel 512GB is already quite a lot since I am running applications on it mostly. Don't like to waste space on SSD to store too many files since it doesn't come cheap.
There was a time where I thought 256GB was plenty, and then some of these newer games started becoming 30~60GB a piece, at which point I ran out of room and deiced to upgrade to a 512GB.
Also, large capacity SSDs have gotten quite a lot cheaper and hurts my wallet a lot less. It's what, less than $200 for a mid range 512GB these days.
These are nice for ultrabooks that still have 2.5" drives even though they're a dying breed. I know a few of our directors were asking about the 1.5TB EVO and >1TB Pros last upgrade cycle. I'll have to drop them a memo about the availability on these.
Uh no, they work with massive data sets and 3D images/videos from MRI, CTs, X-Rays. So yeah, pr0n I guess if you like looking at sick people's bones and guts. :)
if they are working on big data sets quite often you be better of a business dive that is meant for mass Writes or you could ignore the 300TB warranty bit and just use them until they die, which would be over 2PB-8PB written data (better off with Pro version as they are quite solid to the point they silently Die as the pro uses MLC not TLC) i would use HDD sentinel and basically keep an eye on uncorrectable errors
Today, there was a review in Tom's IT PRO for the Seagate Enterprise Performance 10K v8 1.8TB. It is a hybrid drive with $850 pricing. I wonder where is the value in that compared to these two Samsung drives.
Back in March I wrote Samsung asking specifically for a 2TB 850 Pro and also M.2 form factors in the 850 Pro series. I'm sure they already had something in the works, but this announcement makes me feel like I actually accomplished something with that effort.
thats just a issue with samsung poor SATA 3.2 poor implementation saying it supports stuff that it does not support (affects OSX as well) windows does it sequently so you're fine as long as your on windows system
These are cool, but when I do build my next system I do not want a sata based ssd. I would of considered these if they could of been offered in sata express at the very least. Even sata express is already fully saturated and does not offer enough bandwidth for the fastest ssd's. 10gbit sata express just doesn't cut it, need 32gbit ultra m2 to give the fastest ssd's enough breathing room to max out without being bottlenecked by interface speed.
I'm 100% sure my next build which will be skylake-e will be using a motherboard with dual ultra m2 slots. By that time I expect samsung will have its v-nand on m2 ssd's and be able to fit 1TB of space instead of only 512GB. Would like to use 2 of them for 2TB of ssd space and have no spinning HDD's inside the case whatsoever, the NAS will handle bulk storage, no 3.5" HDD keeps noise and vibration levels down and allows airflow to be less restricted and cuts down on sources leaking heat into the case. We will still be waiting awhile for 2TB on m2 ssd's as we are still waiting for 1TB on m2 ssds. Well I guess they could release one of these samsungs with one of those sff-8639 connectors that intel has on their nvme pci-e drive and have a 2TB 2.5" drive that has full 32gbit/s access.
I actually see myself going with one or two large SATA drives like these for data in future builds, and then a smaller PCI-E NVMe drive for the OS. I imagine even a year or two down the line there'll still be a cost divide between the two, particularly if we're still straddling the line between TLC consumer drives and higher end MLC drives.
Shoot, if I was doing a new build right now I'd run the 400GB Intel 750 SSD as my OS/scratch drive (would probably go 256GB if such an option existed) and then Samsung 850 EVO drives for data. Hanging unto my dual 830s for now but will probably move to an 850 this year, well before I decide to replace my 2500K & P67A.
If you use it in a normal desktop, you will get data retention on the order of at least 5 to 10 years.
Everyone badly misunderstands the retention presentation from JEDEC. The worst case situation only applies in rare situations that are hard to duplicate even if you try. Your average desktop is so far away from this worst case situation that you can't even compare the two.
Firstly, the reduced retention is based on using ALL the erase cycles of the NAND cells. Most desktops SSDs would be lucky to reach 10% wear, let alone 100% wear. Retention on NAND is orders of magnitude better when near new then when fully worn.
Secondly, this is talking about server SSDs, not client SSDs. Server SSDs have a lot more error correction and spare space that lets the makers use the NAND a lot more times. While client MLC NAND may be rated for 3k cycles, server eMLC NAND can be rated for 30k cycles. JEDEC specifies a lower retention for server NAND at the end of NAND life based on allowing NAND to be used more heavily.
Third, you should be slapped silly for suggesting that you would spend $1000 on an SSD and then putting it onto the shelf. A terrible waste of money when you could buy a couple of 2TB hard drives for much less and have devices better suited for the job.
Permit me to digress. Samsung 840s need their data oftenly rewritten otherwise there might be errors. And this retention issue means that -travellers- for instance, may not leave their laptops unattended several months because depending on their SSD they might lose relevant data. What about the accepted custom of leaving your personal/family photos or files to stay in what was originally stored at (so far HDs), now even finding decades old laptops somewhere at the house/warehouse. Until now we had the hope of retrieving hard disks. Now? ...Exactly there is a question mark here. To me, this is making explicit the lack of long term storage solutions, something several quitely-but decisively want to surprise! us all with the fact that is already at the cloud, and has been there for decades, hence trust everything to big brother. Where is High capacity durable Bluray optics at lost cost? There exist the need of personal/familiar long term safe storage medium, pronto!
As much as I think samsung are overrated, the 850 TLC series won't have the same kinds of retention problems the 840 TLC series suffered. The feature size on the 850 V-NAND is much larger than the that on the standard planar NAND Samsung uses.
In terms of long term retention, we will probably be surprised. It isn't like USB flash drives suffer constant problems from this.
In terms of keeping your data safe, you can never just throw it onto a device and forget about it. That is just asking for data loss. It has always been this way, and SSDs do not change this. Unless you monitor and renew your media, you are always risking failure and data loss.
And yes, you can still get burnable DVDs and blu-rays. A blank blu-ray disk is a few dollars and they would be suitable for 10 year retention. It isn't as cheap as a hard drive, but if you need that shelf life, you have to choose your priorities.
"Samsung 840s need their data oftenly rewritten otherwise there might be errors." I believe this is the case with my 1 TB Apple-branded drive in my Macbook Pro. It's not unattended at all but old files I copied over when I first got the machine are having random problems. I believe the "Apple" ssd is a 1 TB Samsung 840 EVO.
I called up Samsung. They said that the 850 drives are their last SATA based SSDs. They are moving onto mainly M.2 and possibly PCI-E SSDs for the future.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
56 Comments
Back to Article
hypopraxia - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
When will they be available for purchase. I just checked amazon and newegg, and they are not listed.hulu - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
A Finnish web store lists an estimated time of end of August for the EVO model. No time is listed for the PRO.hulu - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Actually, it literally says "latter half of August".leexgx - Saturday, July 11, 2015 - link
wonder how many are whacking the reload button every time they look at the anandtech page in anticipation of the reviewMrSpadge - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
I hope people are not rushing to store their 4k video collection on 1000$ SSDs..(editing is quite a different task, of course)
MrSpadge - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Ups, I meant to cite the article here: "It should be a nice addition to the 850 PRO series, especially with the rise of 4K video and the extra storage it requires."Flunk - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
If you're doing 4K editing, this could be really helpful.Impulses - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Even if you're not storing it, 1TB could get cramped depending on what other stuff you keep on the OS drive and how many 4K editing projects you have going on at the same time...It might make more sense to just get two 1TB drives in RAID tho, on a desktop at least, but I suppose 2TB drives open up the possibility of simple 4TB arrays which could probably satisfy most usage cases.
rtho782 - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
My laptop has a single 2.5" bay and an mSATA slot. I currently have a 256GB mSATA boot drive and a 2TB Samsung HDD. I'd love to drop the HDD entirely and switch to an SSD but can't right now as I couldn't fit all my steam games on 1TB :Dtoyotabedzrock - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
You could just use a 4 disk raid 0 array for editing since it is sequential and still pull 400 mbps.mapesdhs - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
Try SAS instead, I get 750MB/sec with four old 15Ks, while these days just a single Toshiba 2.5" 15K can do 170MB/sec to 230MB/sec (avg 204).DukeN - Thursday, July 9, 2015 - link
the magic here depends a lot on the RAID hardware used - those 15K SAS drives are pretty awesome. Some of the newer RAID cards let you put a few of those in RAID and put an SSD in front of the array as well.WinterCharm - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
You'd have to be insane to try and edit 4K video on a hard drive. Slow as fuck, especially when you start working with multiple large clips, and 4-8 lanes of video at once for some of the more complex effects.Storage speed is a *must* when working with 4K.
6 of these drives in Raid = 4K editing bliss.
crimsonson - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
You likely run out of GPU and/or CPU power once you reach that many 4K streams, especially if you are handling compressed video formats like XAVC, RED and various H.264 flavors.AndrewJacksonZA - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
@WinterCharm: I think you might want six of these, they're 6TB, not 2TB. :-)http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/205362-massive-...
letmepicyou - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
4k video? To heck with 4k video, having a 2TB SSD will help me get more chicks! Me: "Hey, ladies, guess who has a 2 TB SSD?" Hot ladies: "Ooooh!" *swoon**Tents fingertips*..."Excellent!"
WinterCharm - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
You mean more pr0n on your hard drive?kissiel - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
150TB/2TB = 75 cycles.Which is <100h of constant write @ full speed.
That's "OMG" bad.
GTRagnarok - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Calling it endurance in the chart is a little misleading. 150TB is only what Samsung will cover under warranty so 5 years or 150TB of writes, whichever comes first. Doesn't seem like a lot, but that's 50GB of writes everyday for 8 years. Very, very few people, if anyone, will surpass 150TB within 5 years.The actual endurance is more like 2,000 cycles as covered in another article here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850...
For the 2TB 850 EVO, that's 4000TB of writes so go nuts.
kissiel - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Or 150TB before it will start shrinking usable capacity...And you're right, this shouldn't be a problem. Yet, when I think how often I do rearrangements of data on my different machines, and how often I find myself filling ssds to the brim and then emptying it, I start to worry. Maybe too much. Time will tell :-)
leexgx - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
SSDs don't shrink in size when they start to relocate pages (like HDDs they have spare area where they can remap to)Impulses - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
No, it'd be 2,000 cycles on average before you start losing cells, as GTRagnarok pointed out... Either way, this is the same rating existing drives already had, so nothing has really changed and outside of bugs like the 840 EVO's there hasn't been any glaring issues (AFAIK).Why are you filling/emptying drives routinely? Just curious, you'd maintain optimal performance by never actually filling them completely... And if there's any sort of static data (OS) then there's also wear leveling involved.
kissiel - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Dump stuff from SD cards, process them in batch, push further... .NEFs .MOVs and so on...Oxford Guy - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
"maintain optimal performance"Hopefully for 850 EVO owners the slowdown problems from regular TLC won't rear their head.
Impulses - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
Hopefully not, but not filling up an SSD to capacity has nothing to do with those issues... All SSD will perform better if you never fill them up 100% or partition them in such a way that there's like 15-20% of empty overprovisioned space (in addition to whatever the manufacturer tends to build in).Oxford Guy - Monday, July 13, 2015 - link
"but not filling up an SSD to capacity has nothing to do with those issues"So?
watzupken - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Honestly, 2TB of SSD is not for everyone. Personally for me, I feel 512GB is already quite a lot since I am running applications on it mostly. Don't like to waste space on SSD to store too many files since it doesn't come cheap.meacupla - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
There was a time where I thought 256GB was plenty, and then some of these newer games started becoming 30~60GB a piece, at which point I ran out of room and deiced to upgrade to a 512GB.Also, large capacity SSDs have gotten quite a lot cheaper and hurts my wallet a lot less. It's what, less than $200 for a mid range 512GB these days.
chizow - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
These are nice for ultrabooks that still have 2.5" drives even though they're a dying breed. I know a few of our directors were asking about the 1.5TB EVO and >1TB Pros last upgrade cycle. I'll have to drop them a memo about the availability on these.TheWrongChristian - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Is that for their Pr0n stash? I can't imagine a non-media based work need for this much storage.chizow - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Uh no, they work with massive data sets and 3D images/videos from MRI, CTs, X-Rays. So yeah, pr0n I guess if you like looking at sick people's bones and guts. :)leexgx - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
if they are working on big data sets quite often you be better of a business dive that is meant for mass Writes or you could ignore the 300TB warranty bit and just use them until they die, which would be over 2PB-8PB written data (better off with Pro version as they are quite solid to the point they silently Die as the pro uses MLC not TLC) i would use HDD sentinel and basically keep an eye on uncorrectable errorsGigaplex - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
VMs can benefit significantly from SSDs, and typically consume a lot of space. I'd gladly take 2 for our compile farm at work.eek2121 - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
At my last job, we purchased a dell server with SSDs off ebay. It was a godsend for virtualization. Nothing can slow that machine down.zodiacfml - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Today, there was a review in Tom's IT PRO for the Seagate Enterprise Performance 10K v8 1.8TB. It is a hybrid drive with $850 pricing. I wonder where is the value in that compared to these two Samsung drives.meacupla - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Wow, 2TB in a2.5" package?I guess we'll never see 2.5" samsung M9T spinpoints beyond 2TB then.
Drazick - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
What about the second part of the Broadwell review?Could you tell us things about the Compute capabilities of the GT3e?
Thank You.
philipma1957 - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
please forgive this. It is about ffffing time . I am so on this I have been looking for one for more then a year.pixelstuff - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Back in March I wrote Samsung asking specifically for a 2TB 850 Pro and also M.2 form factors in the 850 Pro series. I'm sure they already had something in the works, but this announcement makes me feel like I actually accomplished something with that effort.jwcalla - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Will it come with working TRIM that doesn't corrupt data?Oxford Guy - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
Isn't that just a Linux issue, due to the use of queued trim or something?leexgx - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
thats just a issue with samsung poor SATA 3.2 poor implementation saying it supports stuff that it does not support (affects OSX as well) windows does it sequently so you're fine as long as your on windows systemKristian Vättö - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
So far there haven't been any reports of TRIM issues under OS X, so it seems to be limited to Linux.Oxford Guy - Monday, July 13, 2015 - link
I have noticed random file corruption on my Macbook Pro with 1 TB mystery Samsung SSD, which is most likely TLC (probably an 840 EVO).Laststop311 - Tuesday, July 7, 2015 - link
These are cool, but when I do build my next system I do not want a sata based ssd. I would of considered these if they could of been offered in sata express at the very least. Even sata express is already fully saturated and does not offer enough bandwidth for the fastest ssd's. 10gbit sata express just doesn't cut it, need 32gbit ultra m2 to give the fastest ssd's enough breathing room to max out without being bottlenecked by interface speed.I'm 100% sure my next build which will be skylake-e will be using a motherboard with dual ultra m2 slots. By that time I expect samsung will have its v-nand on m2 ssd's and be able to fit 1TB of space instead of only 512GB. Would like to use 2 of them for 2TB of ssd space and have no spinning HDD's inside the case whatsoever, the NAS will handle bulk storage, no 3.5" HDD keeps noise and vibration levels down and allows airflow to be less restricted and cuts down on sources leaking heat into the case. We will still be waiting awhile for 2TB on m2 ssd's as we are still waiting for 1TB on m2 ssds. Well I guess they could release one of these samsungs with one of those sff-8639 connectors that intel has on their nvme pci-e drive and have a 2TB 2.5" drive that has full 32gbit/s access.
Impulses - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
I actually see myself going with one or two large SATA drives like these for data in future builds, and then a smaller PCI-E NVMe drive for the OS. I imagine even a year or two down the line there'll still be a cost divide between the two, particularly if we're still straddling the line between TLC consumer drives and higher end MLC drives.Shoot, if I was doing a new build right now I'd run the 400GB Intel 750 SSD as my OS/scratch drive (would probably go 256GB if such an option existed) and then Samsung 850 EVO drives for data. Hanging unto my dual 830s for now but will probably move to an 850 this year, well before I decide to replace my 2500K & P67A.
sulu1977 - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
If I need to put this drive in storage where the temperature varies from 45 deg F to 98 deg F, how much data will it retain after 2 years?canthearu - Thursday, July 9, 2015 - link
If you use it in a normal desktop, you will get data retention on the order of at least 5 to 10 years.Everyone badly misunderstands the retention presentation from JEDEC. The worst case situation only applies in rare situations that are hard to duplicate even if you try. Your average desktop is so far away from this worst case situation that you can't even compare the two.
Firstly, the reduced retention is based on using ALL the erase cycles of the NAND cells. Most desktops SSDs would be lucky to reach 10% wear, let alone 100% wear. Retention on NAND is orders of magnitude better when near new then when fully worn.
Secondly, this is talking about server SSDs, not client SSDs. Server SSDs have a lot more error correction and spare space that lets the makers use the NAND a lot more times. While client MLC NAND may be rated for 3k cycles, server eMLC NAND can be rated for 30k cycles. JEDEC specifies a lower retention for server NAND at the end of NAND life based on allowing NAND to be used more heavily.
Third, you should be slapped silly for suggesting that you would spend $1000 on an SSD and then putting it onto the shelf. A terrible waste of money when you could buy a couple of 2TB hard drives for much less and have devices better suited for the job.
Nexing - Friday, July 10, 2015 - link
Permit me to digress. Samsung 840s need their data oftenly rewritten otherwise there might be errors. And this retention issue means that -travellers- for instance, may not leave their laptops unattended several months because depending on their SSD they might lose relevant data. What about the accepted custom of leaving your personal/family photos or files to stay in what was originally stored at (so far HDs), now even finding decades old laptops somewhere at the house/warehouse. Until now we had the hope of retrieving hard disks. Now? ...Exactly there is a question mark here.To me, this is making explicit the lack of long term storage solutions, something several quitely-but decisively want to surprise! us all with the fact that is already at the cloud, and has been there for decades, hence trust everything to big brother. Where is High capacity durable Bluray optics at lost cost? There exist the need of personal/familiar long term safe storage medium, pronto!
canthearu - Friday, July 10, 2015 - link
Note that this is the 850 EVO 850, not 840 EVO.As much as I think samsung are overrated, the 850 TLC series won't have the same kinds of retention problems the 840 TLC series suffered. The feature size on the 850 V-NAND is much larger than the that on the standard planar NAND Samsung uses.
In terms of long term retention, we will probably be surprised. It isn't like USB flash drives suffer constant problems from this.
In terms of keeping your data safe, you can never just throw it onto a device and forget about it. That is just asking for data loss. It has always been this way, and SSDs do not change this. Unless you monitor and renew your media, you are always risking failure and data loss.
And yes, you can still get burnable DVDs and blu-rays. A blank blu-ray disk is a few dollars and they would be suitable for 10 year retention. It isn't as cheap as a hard drive, but if you need that shelf life, you have to choose your priorities.
Oxford Guy - Monday, July 13, 2015 - link
"Samsung 840s need their data oftenly rewritten otherwise there might be errors." I believe this is the case with my 1 TB Apple-branded drive in my Macbook Pro. It's not unattended at all but old files I copied over when I first got the machine are having random problems. I believe the "Apple" ssd is a 1 TB Samsung 840 EVO.Beaver M. - Wednesday, July 8, 2015 - link
When will the SATA Express ones arrive? Will they cost twice as much too?gohanrocs12 - Thursday, July 9, 2015 - link
I called up Samsung. They said that the 850 drives are their last SATA based SSDs. They are moving onto mainly M.2 and possibly PCI-E SSDs for the future.Beaver M. - Sunday, July 12, 2015 - link
Well, hopefully they will release bigger M.2 ones then. Their SM951 with 512 GB max. is useless to me and PCIe ones dont fit in my cases.TheUnhandledException - Saturday, July 11, 2015 - link
Probably never. Sata Express is dead in the water. It was an interim step which didn't do enough. M.2 and U.2 is the future.