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  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    i'm much more torn between those two systems than i was in the first round (accelerator ftw!), but i guess that's not a bad thing.

    on the milo i like the gtx 960, the ram and the bx100, but i think it puts too much money on the slow 2.5" hdd, the psu and maybe even the case and cooler.

    the pentium might not be a bad choice in combination with the 960 and it saves a good deal of money, but in the end i would have a better feeling having an i3 in my system.

    in that sense the crucial rig makes a great start with the i3, but then it falls short in the graphics department, just to save 20 bucks.

    the larger ssd and the faster hdd are very nice to have and i have to say that i like the thermaltake case more than the silverstone, but i think the psu is oversized and i would just go with windows 10 and get rid of the dvd drive.

    i like that crucial saves money by leaving the after market cpu cooler, but i would have liked to see the money go to a gtx 960, instead of an optical drive.

    overall i have to say that the crucial build is more appealing to me, with the one substantial flaw that it's slightly lacking in the graphics department. without the dvd drive, but with a 960 it would be a clearer winner for me.
  • xthetenth - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Both those cards are probably going to have the same life span to be honest, the 2 GB ones are already starting to have issues with slow frames and low minimum framerates. If either had gone with more VRAM, I'd side with that one in a heartbeat. Past that, the 950 is close enough to the 960 it's still pretty reasonable.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    sure, it won't be a night and day difference, i'm just saying for only 20 bucks more i would have a better feeling with the 960, plus it would be on par with the competing system.
  • Samus - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Realistically the G3258 and GTX960 will last a year or so of AAA gaming at mid-1080P, then as Tony said, given $400 a year from now to upgrade, he'd put $150 toward a CPU and $250 toward a GPU.

    His build has a 120GB SSD and a 1TB HDD which if you sacrificed for a 500GB HDD, you could get a 240GB SSD with the savings since the MX200 250GB is $80.

    That would be the only adjustment I'd make to his build, it is otherwise perfect.
  • rrinker - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    For the purposes of a back to school system, I don't see the optical drive as a waste of money. I'm sure you could find a way to get a DVD or CD to a USB stick if you absolutely had to, but having the drive handy makes it much more convenient. Some things, especially in education, are still strictly on optical media.
    To me, the more capable processor and especially the larger SSD capacity make for a more suitable system for the purpose, especially since it came out cheaper. Plus the somewhat overkill power supply allows upgrading that video card down the road when school is over and it's time to game.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    you got a point with the dvd drive, but personally i'd still prefer a more capable GPU instead of it. you can always get a drive in a pinch should you really need it, but you won't upgrade your gpu so willy nilly on a new computer.
    i still think a 600w psu is overkill though on a 800$ computer running a 950 and an i3, even if you want to upgrade your gpu somewhere down the road. but i admit that i'm generally more conservative with my psu estimates.
  • Frenetic Pony - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I haven't used an optical drive in years and have never needed to in years. Graduated college last summer and never had a use for it, the things are a waste of space and money to me.
  • janisgomez456465 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link


    vantages and disadvantage.
  • coconutboy - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Regarding the $600 psu in Jeremy's build, I think you've focused too heavily on the wattage instead of the price/quality ratio. That 600w Thermaltake psu is ~$15 cheaper than the 450w Silverstone unit in Tony's build. Compare the reviews of the two and you'll see the end result. The cheaper "600w" has crap reviews, while the better quality 450w looks solid.

    Even though most people these days go overboard in buying a psu that's far in excess of what they actually need, that's still one of the better pc trends over the past decade versus the 90s/early 2k when most power supplies were poorly built with a race-to-the-bottom mentality.
  • janisgomez456465 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    my parents inlaw just got an awesome 12 month old Lexus just by parttime work from a computer. you could look here
  • jgarcows - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I can't believe the SSD he picked for the first system. For $20 more, he could have had the 250 GB version of the BX100. That would have let him drop the 1TB HDD (why bother with the hassle of a second drive for so little additional storage) and given him $40 more to spend somewhere else.
  • cknobman - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Two excellent builds!!

    I am torn as well since both have distinct advantages and disadvantage.

    Good thing is neither build has a crippling disadvantage.

    Great case choices too :)

    Crucial has the storage and processor advantage.
    Silverstone has the gaming advantage.

    I'd be happy to own either one but if I absolutely had to pick one it would be the Silverstone and I would probably put it in my media room and hook it up to my plasma TV.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    More or less how I feel; with the caveat that by going equally far over budget Crucial could match Silverstone in the gaming dept.

    If I was going to tweak either design, I'd probably dump the HDD and go with a budget 512GB SSD as my sole storage. As long as you're not collecting TV/Movie rips it's plenty of space, and having done it in the past I really don't like the idea of having to deal with split storage again. Even with an SSD big enough to handle everything but media files it was still a hassle.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    good points. i agree that the crucial build should have gone with the 960, while still not costing more than the silverstone rig. but of course the builders didn't know their respective hardware choices, so pitfalls like this aren't surprising.

    i like your idea with the 512gb ssd. personally i need more than 256gb of storage, but i don't really need more than 512gb. omitting the hdd would be a good way to save a couple of bucks so you can upgrade the ssd and have a simpler setup with better performance. you also save some power and have less vibrations, but i guess that's not that big of a deal in a gaming system.
  • coconutboy - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Good summary Dan. I'm really like that Milo case (Thermaltake Cube isn't bad either), but it'd be tough to argue against Jeremy's build if he had a 512GB ssd and a gtx 960.

    Too bad the deadline was so far back, because in the past 3 weeks or so, there have been a number of 500GB+ Crucial/Samsung ssds for $130-150. Given that option, I wonder if Tony/Jeremy would have ditched their hdds and gone all in on ssds?
  • BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Like fokka said, this is a much closer call than the higher budget systems (though I really preferred Hey Good Lookin :) between those two). Each of these systems has distinctive advantages and they both show thought and care in component choices. Milo has some future-proofing with respect to CPU upgrades, a really nice case, and a bit more GPU. Bantam's got a solid CPU, lots more solid state storage, and includes a DVD drive -- something a lot of us still can't quite escape needing once in a while. So yeah, I can't outright favor one or the other. They're both excellent builds within their budget constraints.

    On a side note, I've really enjoyed these build-a-rig articles just in general. While the heart of it is building a system within a budget and comparing it, the interviews that go along with it are an enjoyable read. I hope Anandtech continues to run these sorts of things on occasion as technology changes.
  • jaydee - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I like the case, SSD, CPU of the Crucial build, not much of a gamer, so GPU isn't a big deal to me. 600W is total overkill though for a 54W CPU and 90W GPU. This system isn't going to max out higher than 200W, so you're always in the sub-optimal range for this power supply, so I believe that is a poor choice. I'd much rather see a SFF 300-400W PSU like FSP or Silverstone.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    i agree. many people seem to buy 600w PSUs "just to be save", but i think on a custom build like this a 3x oversized psu can almost be considered a poor choice. but as always, to each their own.
  • zero2dash - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Assuming the Intel Microcode update doesn't remove the Silverstone build's ability to OC like it has with a lot of other boards - I'd much rather have that build, because I think you come out ahead in performance CPU+GPU especially if you can OC, vs. the i3 with the weaker GPU.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    the question is how much ahead? you're saving on the cpu, but spending more on the board and the cooler, just to have the "hassle" of overclocking. i'm not saying it doesn't make any sense but personally i would prefer the i3 and be set.
  • zero2dash - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    He didn't need to buy the SS CPU cooler, that's for sure. Plenty of people have OC'd 4.2 with the stock cooler (myself included). Temps don't go above low-60's while stress testing. Sure, a smaller case would maybe be a few degrees warmer, but not enough to necessitate buying aftermarket cooling. You can also OC on boards back to the H81 which are dirt cheap at this point and could have saved a few more bucks as well.

    My issue/question (again) is whether or not the Intel microcode update disables OC'ing or not on the board. My board (H97 Performance), ASRock released a bios update because of the MC update, but that bios update removes the ability to OC. The workaround (instead of updating the bios) is to rename the Intel MC DLL file in Win10 (or refuse the MC update in Win7) and you're fine.
  • The0ne - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Using parts picker, I wonder what the cost differences are vs Newegg. Of course I'm expected to be ban from having said this of Anandtech.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    What?!?!
  • Batmeat - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Not sure what you mean??? Both builds are required to be built with components readily available on Newegg.
  • The0ne - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    From the readership there will be some people that will build what is recommended. That means shopping at Newegg and nowhere else. Unfortunate.

    The comment was a cynical, sarcastic joke of Anandtech's relationship with Newegg. Money runs deep so marketing is everything for Newegg. I be careful and wary if I were you. Their hotdeals forum is a fine example or being bought out. Have fun!
  • Batmeat - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Ahhhh. Gotcha. You're right though, Newegg isn't always the best deal and spending a little extra time perusing other retails one can easily save a healthy chunk of change.
  • gamer1000k - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I like the Crucial build better, for a back to school PC having something well rounded is more important than all-out gaming performance. Also, in my experience I rarely upgrade a computer after building it so I would rather build a solid system I can use for a few years (and then sell it or use it as a secondary PC) and then build an entirely new system.

    There's still a few parts I would change out though. An entry level 960 is only $20 more than the 950, and the 600W PSU is overkill for the system so I would drop down to a 450W PSU and bump the GPU up to a 960.
  • Fiernaq - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Are downgrade rights only available for the Pro editions of Windows? It's been a while since I've installed a Home edition but if they are available then you might as well purchase 10 because you'll be able to install as 10, 8, or 7. All I could find on MS was downgrade rights for Pro: http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicens...

    I am curious to know if the G3258 would bottleneck the SilverStone rig to the point where upgrading the GPU wouldn't benefit the system very much. If it doesn't then I would probably pick that one although possibly with a few minor tweaks such as dropping the HDD in favor of a larger 850 Evo. If it does bottleneck upgrades then I would take the Crucial system and modify it based on the assumption that I would be adding parts within a year.
  • Ryan Smith - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    "Are downgrade rights only available for the Pro editions of Windows?"

    Yes. It's a Pro-only right.
  • Penti - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Also end users buying Pro-licenses won't be able to downgrade, you need volume license for that or an OEM that provides you with media/key.
  • Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Straight up Team Tony Ou and SilverStone over here, and I think you'd find that sentiment to be pretty common in the case/cooling/PSU side of Corsair.

    I like Tony's build better. While it's true, the Pentium's lack of hyper-threading may cut its legs off down the road, Tony's build just feels more classy and balanced, and the components are a bit higher quality. There's also just more you can do with it; I'm a sucker for an overclockable system.

    My hat's off to both, but I'm calling this one for Tony and SilverStone. ;)
  • frenchy_2001 - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    I also really like it.
    The ML08 is everything I was looking for in a thin mITX case: small and thin while allowing for full graphic card and would fit great as an HTPC.
    I would argue that for a BTS build, I may have gone for more CPU and less graphics, but both builds are fairly balanced. I love the SSD+HDD storage, reflecting realistic needs for BTS (opposite of the previous builds with high end components, but little storage).
    I could live and use either system, but points for style to Silverstone.
  • TallestJon96 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Both good builds, but I think a lentil, with a cooler will lose to an i3.
  • TallestJon96 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Pentium* where is that darn edit button...
  • jaydee - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Take the Crucial build, trade the B85 board for ASRock H97 board and save $20. Trade the mSata SSD for Crucial BX100 and save $40. Take that $60 in savings and trade the i3-4170 for an i5-4460.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    makes sense. and who could resist an i5 when we're competing with pentium and i3?
  • gamer1000k - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Just for fun, here's my build. Note that it doesn't include an OS since you can get Windows for free through most schools.

    Name: Budget Beast
    CPU: Intel i5-4430 $185
    Mobo: AsRock H97M-ITX $84
    RAM: G.SKILL Aegis 16GB DDR-3 1600 $74
    GPU: Zotac GeForce 960 ZT-90308-10M 4GB $215
    SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB $169
    Case: Rosewill Neutron $40
    PSU: Corsair CX430 430W $40

    Lots of little things that could be changed on here (could drop down to an i3 to upgrade something else or halve the RAM to free up some cash) but I wanted to make sure that the PC would have what it needed for the next few years and not cheap out too much on the core components (I hate being stuck with old components after upgrading, I would rather leave empty slots I can fill later). The case has room for 3.5" drives if you need more storage later, and also supports 5.25" optical drives if you need them.
  • gamer1000k - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Edit: Total Price: $806

    Anandtech, you really need to update your post system to support standard features like preview/edit and such...
  • coconutboy - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    ++

    it's 2015, being able to edit, even if it's only within a short time frame, is the norm. Not having it, especially on well-known tech site is just bizarre.
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    i'm starting to like the user builds more and more! i5/16gb/500gb ssd/960 4gb instead of pentiums, puny SSDs, slow HDDs and optical drives? yes please!

    and i agree with your sentiment: i'd rather get the cornerstones right from the beginning, i can always add more storage and optical drives later.

    can't you also get windows for free if you always install the preview builds? omitting the cost of the os seems a bit unfair of course, but with the hardware you have listed up there it's kinda hard not to cheat. ^^
  • DanNeely - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    It's a lot easier to avoid pinching on specs if you have an extra $100 to play with by not buying an OS.
  • jaydee - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Without including OS, you're playing by different rules...
  • gamer1000k - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    I understand your point, but nowhere in the rules does it say that you have to spend $100 on the OS. There's plenty of ways to legally get Windows for free (especially if you're a student) and even failing that, there's always Linux or a Hackintosh. Anyone who is willing to build a PC (as opposed to buying prebuilt where the vendor got windows practically for free) is likely to be able to take advantage of one of the free OS options.

    That said, if the $100 OS was a strict requirement, I would drop down to 8GB RAM (single DIMM, not 2x4GB) and an i3 or a lesser GPU (Radeon R7 370 4GB) depending on the use case for the PC.
  • bliq00 - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Not all of us are in school so you can't really omit the Windows license.
  • gamer1000k - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    This is a "back to school" PC (it says so right in the title) so I felt that would be a fair assumption to make.
  • Mr Perfect - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Will there be another mITX build-off in the future without such a limiting budget? I'd love to see builds that are limited by the form factor rather then the budget. :)
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I'd expect them to keep going up/down the budget curve as long as the articles are generating enough interest to pay their way; but after the way a large chunk of the commentariat trashed the Zotac build last time around for going for anything other than raw power I'm afraid we'd end up with two virtually identical boxes consisting of an i7 and Titan in a big enough it might as well be mATX case to avoid either broiling their guts or sounding like a heavily loaded fighter screaming off the carrier deck on full afterburner.
  • Mr Perfect - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Hmm, you could be right about unlimited budgets. Still, something that pushes the limits a little would be nice. Maybe a $1500 build? You could still get an i7 and a nice GPU in a shoebox case for that, but the monster cards would be priced out so as not to turn into hair dryers.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    $1500 was the first build. A lot of people flamed the Zotac build for going for a well balanced system and putting money into aesthetics, while the Corsair assembled the rest of their build around a GTX 980 Ti. While I didn't fully agree with all the details of their build; I did agree that at the $1500 pricepoint a GTX 970 was the more reasonable option unless you already had a >=1440p display. Even there, if you can't add a few hundred more to your budget, having a slightly underpowered GPU for two years is a reasonable tradeoff for having a better balanced system in other aspects for the next 6. (Assuming a 2 year useful GPU lifespan, and replacing the whole system when it ends up on the upswing in the failure bathtub curve.)
  • fokka - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    haha, you're right, it did get a bit ugly in the comments. but i also remember a surprising number of users who preferred the zotac build, so it wasn't all bad.
  • Mr Perfect - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    True, I was simply trying to get more of these mITX challenges going, though. The first builds where ATX monsters and it's easy to build one of those. There are no space constraints, cooling components is a snap and it's easy keeping noise in check. A mITX takes a little finesse though, so I'd think it would make for a more interesting competition. The round two builds got hit pretty hard with the budget hammer, they didn't get to push any boundaries.
  • gamer1000k - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I priced out a $1500 mITX for fun in the previous build-a-rig competition. It ended up pretty similar to the Corsair build (unlocked i5 and 980TI) but in a mITX case.

    http://anandtech.com/comments/9403/introducing-the...
  • PPalmgren - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    I have a 980ti in a micro-ATX case, with really strong cooling, and the thing still gets quite loud. I'm pretty close to that 'noise cutoff' point where the noise becomes a major detractor. I can't imagine a 980ti doing any better in an ITX unless it was a roomy cube with dedicated airflow like the Corsair 250D.
  • gamer1000k - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    The case I chose (Silverstone FTZ01) uses a riser card to move the GPU next to the motherboard instead of putting it on top of it and has vents directly over the GPU fans. This design provides better GPU cooling than a lot of large towers since the GPU can directly pull in cool air from the room instead of hot air from inside the case.
  • Zap - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I'm liking this build-a-rig round, from the budget to the SFF results.

    If I had to choose, I would pick the Silverstone. I don't think there are any show stoppers in the choices. Redirect data folders (My Videos, My Documents, Downloads, etc.) to the HDD to alleviate space issues on the SSD. If nothing is running off the HDD, won't notice the lack of performance. Dual cores is still somewhat sufficient as long as the user doesn't keep tons of stuff running all the time.

    The Crucial build does have more weaknesses. Most glaring weakness is the PSU. This unit is only 72% efficient, no published combined +12v output (theoretical max 43A or 516W but I wouldn't trust that) or temperature rating, and doesn't even have active PFC. Note that Thermaltake makes multiple TR2 600W units, and I'm talking about the one linked at Newegg which is the TR-600. There is an updated TR-600P model for only $12 more at Newegg which fixes all these issues. Other than that, already pointed out that $20 more gets a GTX 960. Rest of the parts are fine for their purposes.

    If I had to configure a system?
    (Pricing/availability taken from Newegg 10/13/15 not counting rebates, taxes, shipping)

    CPU - Intel Core i3-4170 $125
    (Good price for 4 threads.)
    Mobo - ASRock H81M-ITX/WIFI $63
    (PCIe2 not yet limitation, basic WiFi in case that's what the dorms have.)
    GPU - MSI GTX 960 4GB $205
    (Overclocked, 4GB for those "2GB not enough" naysayers."
    RAM - Mushkin ECO2 8GB (2 x 4GB) $36
    (Great price for 1600MHz 1.35v DDR3L)
    SSD - Crucial MX200 2.5" 500GB SSD $130
    (I think one big SSD is more usable unless actually storing huge amounts of data.)
    HDD - none
    PSU - Silverstone ST45SF $70
    (Proven unit. Get FSP version if cheaper at time of buying.)
    Case - Silverstone Milo ML08B $75
    (So small, does it really need a handle?)
    CPU cooler - none/stock
    OS - Windows 10 $100
    Extras - none
    Total = $804
  • frenchy_2001 - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    I like your build. More balanced.
    Better CPU, but sacrificed OC (good trade off)
    More SSD, but no HDD (fine for the budget. Can always add more storage for cheap later)
    no handle (not a need for me)
    DDR3L (can maybe reuse for a Skylake build down the road)
    Stock cooler (most probably fine)
    4GB 960 (good for now and immediate future)

    Then, down the road, you can add storage and maybe a quieter cooler if needed.
    That box can be used both as main dorm PC and/or HTPC.

    Very nice.
  • Flunk - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    These sustems are pretty well matched. With the exception of the Thermaltake TR2 600W in Crucial's build. That is one seriously cheap power supply (in a bad way), although maybe I'm biased because I've had several Thermaltake power supplies blow up on me.
  • KAlmquist - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I agree, especially since this build isn't going to draw anything close to 600W. A Seasonic SSP-300ET ($41) would be better, but if it were me I would try to fit a Seasonic SSR-360GP ($64) or an FSP Group Aurum S 400W ($60) into the budget.
  • PPalmgren - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    It seems like the goal was to allow upgradeability room, and in that case, I think its a decent fit. No better/different than a CX600 or something.
  • amightywind - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Both cases are great. I prefer the Crucial/i3 build. Multithreading is no longer optional and clearly appropriate for back-to-school. The weaker graphics don't put me off. In the past 15 years I have built half-a-dozen mid-market machines with reduced size cases using Anandtech's build guides. I'm glad they are emphasizing this again. Really useful info, but with a short half-life. The hobbyist PC component market is really a thing to behold. I really like the idea competing builds with constraints.
  • quidpro - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Links for the Crucial system have url destinations swapped for PSU and Chassis
  • geniekid - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    Very torn between these two builds!

    The processors are the most interesting aspect, IMHO. Both are two-core processors but one is Hyperthreading-enabled while the other is known to overlock well. Presumably an overclocked G3258 will be better for games and single threaded applications but I expect the numbers to be quite close. I'm very eager to see the benchmarks.

    The GPU difference, on the other hand, is something I predict will be a significant difference. Mid-range GPUs like the 950 GTX and 960 GTX are situated on a steep section of the price-performance curve and spending a little extra here can go a long way. That said, the price difference between the two GPUs here is almost identical to the price difference between the two builds overall so any benefit of the Silverstone build should really be attributed to Milo's higher cost.

    Regarding storage, 256 GB SSD on the Crucial is really nice. It wouldn't hold my entire games library but it would probably hold the games I play most often with occasional re-installs to manage the changing nature of "games I play most often".

    In the end I think I'm in favor of Silverstone's Milo just because my inner geek is drawn to the G3258. The idea of a build whose value stems from its overclock-ability appeals to me and even more to college me.
  • CountDown_0 - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    I'd go for the Crucial build, because the CPU is so much better and the SSD is twice as large. The GPU is not much slower, the optical drive still makes sense, Windows 10 would be better but the upgrade is free, so it's still ok.

    Anyway, I would like to say another thing. The PSUs are ridicolously overkill!!! Both of them! Not just Crucial's one!

    The PC I'm using right now is based on Silverstone's RVZ01. I have an i5 4690k (still at stock frequencies), 16 GB of RAM, a 512 GB SSD, an optical drive, and a MSI GTX 960 Gaming G1. Compare these specs with the 2 builds proposed here: my consumption is certainly higher. Well, the PSU I have is Silverstone's 300W ST30SF, and it's even too much - I am playing The Witcher (1) and, thanks to a (admittedly cheap and thus probably not too precise) power meter I have seen a peak of 180W (at the wall! Which means that the DC power it delivers is even lower, let's say 15% less, then it's 153W!). Both these PSUs are REALLY overkill!!
  • Jumangi - Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - link

    At only $800 budget it should be about the internal core complements like the gpu and cpu. The looks of a flashier case don't mean squat if your games run poorly. The crucial build spends way to much on the PSU and case. Can easily save money to get a much better CPU.
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  • Cliff34 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Can i have one suggestion as to the article? Is it possible to show the prices next to the items in the last page where you compare both systems? This will help to gauge where the money is being spent :).
  • Stuka87 - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Really surprised they both went with nVidia GPUs, they could have both gotten AMDs that were quite a bit fast for that price, or gone with a same speed card with less money. In this price range price should be a very important factor. Both the 950 and 960 are badly over priced cards.

    Go with an AMD, and then get a better CPU with the residual money.
  • colonelclaw - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    My take on this challenge would be to drop any gaming aspirations and go for raw computing power and more memory. An integrated CPU/GPU would allow for 16 or 32GB RAM and more/faster storage. The reason for this is interpreting the 'back to school' theme to mean a PC designed for work first and foremost, preferably math/science-based.

    I would then sneakily give the recipient of said machine a PS4 whilst their parents weren't looking, because downtime is important.
  • SUpstone - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    Your idea of a budget is different to mine. If the build budget is $800 then that's all there is... you can't spend $812! I've read the rules and I see you allow 3% flex so Silverstone are within your rules... but Crucial could've addressed what seems to be the main criticism and chose a GTX 960 and been within your $824 limit. If you're really struggling to get the budget together, or you're building PCs as a business, then overspends are a no-go.

    In my experience the core i3 is a sound value for money choice for good productivity / media / games performance. An i5 is nice to have but not necessary. I agree with what many others have said: chose one 500GB SSD and lose the HDD. I'd keep the optical disk drive... for the student who wants to watch movies on the PC monitor pre-owned DVDs may be old skool but will be cheap and easy.
  • tonyou - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link

    When we submitted the parts list on September 16, our total price was $794.90 excluding special incentives or rebates. So it wasn't our intention to overspent and flirt with the 3% flex, we just didn't have information about the part's 90 day average price unfortunately.
  • meacupla - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I just bought a ML08 yesterday. Build quality seems to be a bit under what silverstone usually has, with bent tabs causing loose panels and HDD mounts that don't snap in place.

    It's nothing a bit of bending can't fix, but I think it's worth mentioning.

    Overall, I like this better than the RVZ01.
  • SaintStryfe - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    So I went on PC part picker and made a few choices of my own. Here's what I think:

    A student PC for playing MOBAs, light MMOs and school work should overall have a mid-range processor, a solid amount of RAM and a reasonable graphics card. More is always better, but 800$ is more than enough.

    Now I've got a few degrees so I know the ritual of lugging everything to school. It is... not fun. So I wanted to make it small enough to make it easy. So I went Mini ITX. To keep costs down I went with a non-overclockable chip and stock cooling. I am an Intel and nVidia person myself, so I went those too. Without further ado, here you go:

    PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/CrZ3TW
    Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/CrZ3TW/by_merchant/

    CPU: Intel Core i3-4330 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($129.89 @ OutletPC)
    Motherboard: ASRock B85M-ITX Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($67.98 @ Newegg)
    Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Storage: OCZ ARC 100 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($45.89 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 4GB Superclocked Video Card ($215.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Case: Rosewill Neutron Mini ITX Desktop Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
    Power Supply: Thermaltake TR2 430W ATX Power Supply ($33.99 @ Best Buy)
    Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0B DVD/CD Writer ($16.89 @ OutletPC)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($93.75 @ OutletPC)
    Keyboard: AmazonBasics KU-0833 +MSU0939 Wired Standard Keyboard w/Optical Mouse ($14.99 @ Amazon)
    Total: $793.34
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-14 15:12 EDT-0400

    Ivy Bridge Core i3's are a solid value. They have more than enough processing power for a modern game, while being cool and energy efficient. The motherboard will hold everything we're throwing at it easily. 8GB of RAM is more than enough for these tasks.

    I went with a lot of IO - a DVD-RW (hey, they're college students, they'll want to trade music, also some school books still insist on using DVDs), a 240GB SSD for boot and a favorite game or two, and a bigger bulk storage drive - I was able to wedge a whole TB drive in there. The kid is NOT running out of storage. If I had an extra 50$ I'd also tack on a external for backup. Oh well - that's for Christmas.

    For MOBAs, light MMO's (WoW or GW2), or older shooters (CS:GO) a 960 is a great card. This EVGA model is only 6" long, but has a full 4 gigs of Memory, so it'll be a hit at LAN parties.

    The case is a nice lil Rosewill number that'll hold all our bits, and have external USB 3 for hooking up a high speed flash drive, plus look good for those LAN parties. The classic Corsair power supply will provide all the juice needed, and being semi-modular lends to removing some of the bulk that won't be needed, like a lot of MOLEX cables.

    I had plenty of cash upto this point, so I tacked on Windows 10 (Most schools have some form of getting MS Office to kids on the cheap, so I forwent that, but hey, OpenOffice, iWorks in the Cloud, ect.) and tossed a simple keyboard and mouse on there.

    This rig will last a kid 4-5 years easily, and comes right in on budget. What do you think of my solution?
  • SUpstone - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Nicely done! and your comment about the necessity of a back-up drive is spot on too... I can easily imagine a student leaves home for college and also leaves behind them the back-up service that mum and/or dad did on the home PC. Easily overlooked.
  • SaintStryfe - Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - link

    Thank you!

    I know I've seen a few Core i5's with a small SSD or just a mechanical drive, and such, but I just feel that in my experience as a college student, having that bulk storage is the most important thing. You get files/music from your friends, you install games, you save videos for school projects, it just gets eaten up. Having the SSD, DVD and 1TB means you never have to say "Sorry".

    Note due to college networks being pretty good most of the time, it is entirely reasonable to do a cloud backup service too - Pogoplug or something like that. But I don't know, I guess I'm just old fashioned. I like a disk that if the world is burning, I can grab on my way out.
  • lichoblack - Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - link

    I've made this excersise of a 800$ BTS rig and went about 3$ overbudget. Instead of the milo, I went with the FT03mini, for a really distinctive miniITX build. So here it is:

    My entry to the 800$ BTS build

    Cart Item List:

    Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
    1
    SILVERSTONE Black Fortress Series SST-FT03B-MINI Mini ITX Media Center / HTPC Case
    Item #:N82E16811163197
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $139.99

    1
    EVGA GeForce GTX 960 04G-P4-3962-KR 4GB SC GAMING, Only 6.8 inches, Perfect for mITX Build Graphics Card
    Item #:N82E16814487133
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $229.99
    $219.99

    1
    OCZ ARC 100 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) ARC100-25SAT3-120G
    Item #:N82E16820228115
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $64.99
    $55.99

    1
    Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-bit
    Item #:N82E16832416776
    Return Policy: Consumable Product Return Policy
    $99.99

    1
    Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model KVR16LN11K2/8
    Item #:N82E16820239877
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $42.99

    1
    Intel Pentium G3258 3.2 GHz LGA 1150 BX80646G3258 Desktop Processor
    Item #:N82E16819117374
    Return Policy: Replacement Only Return Policy
    $69.99

    1
    ASRock Z97E-ITX/ac Mini ITX Intel Motherboard
    Item #:N82E16813157504
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $139.99
    $129.99

    1
    SILVERSTONE ST45SF 450W Power Supply
    Item #:N82E16817256063
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
    $79.99
    $69.99

    1
    NVIDIA Gift - Heroes of the Storm
    Item #:N82E16800995242
    Return Policy: Consumable Product Return Policy
    $0.99

    Grand Total: $828.92
  • twotwotwo - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    OK, that SFF SilverStone is *cute*, and (or, because) I usually don't like desktop designs.
  • BrokenCrayons - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Yes, that's so true about the SilverStone case. It's very worthy of a few squees. A few years ago, I had a gigantic Lian Li case which I got second hand. It was the most impracticaly, obnoxiously huge thing and had it's own set of wheels. Since the Crucial box is sort of like a cute little baby version of that same case, I really can't completely side with SilverStone on this one based on the case. Either way, I'm glad the days of full tower cases are behind us. Honestly, pretty much anything bigger than a MicroATX is impractical and I'd much prefer a laptop over anything chained to a wall via a power outlet. Even the ease of getting a discrete GPU doesn't justify the extra size. I'll just keep my expectations low and enjoy older/less demanding games on an iGPU in a laptop.
  • PPalmgren - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Imagine, once M.2 takes off and as SSD prices continue to plummet, being able to build a system in a case that has no expansion slots. Lots of interesting possibilities.
  • gamer1000k - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    This is already possible, the price of M.2 SSDs (the sata ones anyways) are equivalent to the other form factors and 500GB drives are readily available.

    Combine that with an Iris Pro iGPU and you would have a very capable, compact system.
  • coconutboy - Thursday, October 15, 2015 - link

    Awesome to see Tony Ou up at bat. Dude has been great in his community/forum interaction and Silverstone has produced some awesome and compelling rethinks of pc case design these past few years. Little doubt Tony's had something to do with that.

    Too bad then Tony, that you've lost this round. I'm not talking about the build-a-rig battle, I'm talking the pictures on page 1. Jeremy Mortenson's game face is AWESOME, and sets a new standard for all future competitors in build-a-rig duels. He even has nunchucks and appears to be ready to enter a no-holds-barred cage fight!

    As far as the systems, man... very tough call. Tony and Silverstone have the better case and vid card, while Jermey and Crucial have the better ssd and cpu. It's close, but I think I'll give my vote to Mighty Milo. I love that case with it's small footprint and brilliant design, and it'll be the better gaming machine with that gtx 960oc. Then again, that rig is more likely to eat up a students time and have them flunking out of classes because they're hooked on DotA!. Maybe Jeremy's better cpu will help students finish school tasks quicker while not tempting them to spend so much time gaming. ;-)
  • coconutboy - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Noticed a few prices have changed since the post date, but figured I love these build-offs so much, I'd tinker with my own while watching the MLB playoffs. I'll say up front I really wanted to use the same case as Tony's Silverstone build (including the handle, it's totally worth the $10 increase) because that thing is just badass, just look at that tiny footprint! Buuuut... since I'd rather not be a complete copycat, I tried to offer some different options with explanations after the list.

    coconutboy's cool white chiller:
    cpu: intel core i3-4170 $125
    note: no aftermarket cpu cooler, stock intel
    mobo: asrock h81m-itx/wifi $63
    gpu: msi gtx 960oc $180
    ram: corsair vengeance 8gb cas 9 low profile ddr3 1600 $41
    storage: no hdd, only crucial's bx100 500GB ssd $150
    psu: corsair cx430m 80 plus bronze modular psu $50
    case: xigmatek aquila white steel micro-atx cube chassis $90
    os: windows 10 home oem $100
    total cost: $799

    Breakdown of parts:
    cpu: I love that Tony gave a shout out to the overclocking crowd with the g3258, but Jeremy nailed this one. If Windows 10 microcode concerns about nerfing the oc become long-term reality, then that Pentium cpu loses most of its appeal. Meanwhile the i3-4170 can handle 4 threads, is clocked 500MHz higher out of the box. No ocing required is very welcome in a tiny itx case packing a 120w vid card.

    mobo: easily the most debatable part of this build. Like Jeremy's gigabyte board, this asrock only has 2 usb3.0 ports (and 4 usb 2.0 ports). Unlike Jeremy's mobo which can add more usb3.0 via headers, this asrock only offers up more usb2.0 headers, so 2x usb3.0 is all you get, period. My chosen mobo's intel h81 chipset also limits you to pci express 2.0 instead of 3.0, and only offers wireless b/g/n wif instead of the ac seen on Tony and Jeremy's picks.

    "Wow that's a lot of freakin' compromises!", you say? Aye, but the questions are, will they actually have an impact, and would you even notice? The usb 3.0, that's something each individual has to address for themselves. PCI Express 2.0 vs 3.0 with single gpus has been covered in depth most recently by guru3d, but hardocp/anand/toms/etc have also done tons of great write-ups. The difference is either nonexistent or at most 2% when using the latest high-end cards like a gtx980 or better. With a gtx 960oc it won't matter.

    The wireless ac vs b/g/n could be something that might be more noticeable to the end user however, so if that or any of these issues concern you, upgrade to either of the mobos recommended by Jeremy/Tony.

    gpu: the white MSI will look great through the white Xigmatek case's window, but even better is that it gets excellent reviews. A very strong alternative tho is the Powercolor PCS+ Radeon r9 380 axr9. Not as pretty in the case, but for $10 less than the msi, the powercolor card is generally going to be even faster at the expense of greater power draw. ymmv

    ram: excellent reviews and the low profile make it a tad easier to fiddle about inside a tiny itx case.

    storage: it's not the fastest, but very reliable with excellent reviews. I think most folks would prefer a 500gb ssd over a hybrid setup with only a 1TB hdd.

    psu: a 5.9" deep modular and inexpensive corsair to clean up that tiny case. 'nuff said.

    case: like the mobo, one of my toughest choices. The Corsair 250d looms large here for essentially the same price. Then there's other great options like the Fractal Node 304 for $65, Jeremy and Tony's choices, or unusual but potentially awesome stuff like the Xigmatek Nebula C for $60. Want a portable case that can take a bit of a beating? Check out the Azza csaz-105 which is basically a modern version of the mods from the late 1990s where people would stuff their computer into a portable briefcase or some such. Really, options for cases are always endless and fickle for every user.

    I picked the Xigmatek because, like the Nebula, it looks fantastic, but also because it's known to be quiet and has so many other niceties like top front and bottom dust filters. The mobo being laid horizontal increases the footprint of the case to a similar size as the 250d or Jeremy's Thermaltake cube, but in exchange it shows off the vid card through the side window. The huge 200m fan up front along with 120mm out back is solid for cooling, but you can increase this further if you like by mounting up to a 240mm radiator up top (but losing the 5.25" bay in exchange. Being able to install 4 internal hdds is also great. Overall, the case has a lot of flexibility with a good reviews both on newegg and websites.

    /mic drop
  • SUpstone - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Good build list - that's a sweet PC
  • DLimmer - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    First, I hope that both boxes are tested with GeForce GTX 960s in them, since the second build was $20 less than the first, and that's the difference between video cards.

    Secondly, If I were to make one, I would trim the fat in order to get a quad core CPU. Here goes:

    CPU - Intel Core i5-6400 $190
    Mobo - Gigabyte GA-H110M-A (rev. 1.0) LGA 1151 Intel H110 $56
    (1st corner cut)
    GPU - MSI Radeon R9 380 R9 380 GAMING 4GB LE 4GB $200
    RAM - Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4 2133 $48
    SSD - ADATA Premier SP600 256GB SSD $70
    (2nd corner cut)
    HDD - none
    PSU - Antec EarthWatts Platinum Series EA-550 $80
    Case - Antec ISK 600M Black Aluminum $70
    CPU cooler - none/stock
    OS - Windows 10 $100
    Total: $814

    Performance should be near unbeatable at this price. The only way to improve is to skimp on the case and power supply in order to select a better SSD.

    That said, with $400 to spend next year, I would purchase a wi-fi card, HDD, a better SSD, and possibly a slim optical drive. ($50 / $150 / $150 / $50).

    Weaknesses: no Wifi, single/slower SSD, small storage (removed in 1 year)
    Strengths: Quad core Skylake, R9 380, efficient/ample power supply
  • coconutboy - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Nice build. For people that stick to just one game or maybe carry the bulk of their data on portable hdd/usb, the 256 should be fine. Meanwhile the beefy cpu and gpu's 4gb vram give a lot of oomph that don't need upgrading so quickly.

    Even better, as http://techreport.com/news/28957/the-skylake-core-...">Scott Wasson astutely pointed out, your build gets even more affordable when the Skylake i3-6320 releases. That cpu would sacrifice 2MB of L3 cache, but has a base clock that's a whopping 600MHz higher than the Core i5-6400's turbo maximum.
  • SaintStryfe - Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - link

    For a college student, no Wifi isn't a problem, most students have an Ethernet jack right in the room. That's fine by my book.
  • Tchamber - Friday, October 16, 2015 - link

    Wow, both are compelling systems. It's amazing how much performance we have available for such a reasonable price!
  • lindda8764 - Saturday, October 17, 2015 - link

    hiiiii
  • Kokapelli - Sunday, October 18, 2015 - link

    while this might not be in the spirit of picking each and every individual part, there are numerous deals to be had on newegg in terms of buying an "off the shelf" pc with an i5 for around $500. Take the remaining $300 and get the 960, or maybe even a 970 on sale. End result beats both of these. There's also several prebuilt gaming computers with various i5's + 960s as well as FX8k series + 960s for less than 800, and all of these options come with windows.
  • DLimmer - Monday, October 19, 2015 - link

    I just looked, and it's $450 for a 4GB memory option and $500 for 8GB DDR3. So, you add $200ish for the best affordable video card (R9 380 4GB is $205) and $70-95 for a SSD and you come out ahead (a 500GB-1TB hard drive)... or do you?

    You're missing out on Skylake and your power supply may not be able to handle the video card upgrade.

    ($799 for i5, 8GB, R9 380 2GB, 2TB HDD, 120GB SSD)
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

    in fact, the same maker sells the box I made (with 2GB video card, half the SSD, but adds a 2TB HDD) for $950.

    Bottom line: making your own is the the fastest option.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
  • leopard_jumps - Monday, October 19, 2015 - link

    Tuned for Newegg

    $750 Gaming PC

    PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kq2Hyc
    Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kq2Hyc/by_merchant/

    CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($191.89 @ OutletPC)
    Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($72.98 @ Newegg)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.33 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card ($218.98 @ Newegg)
    Case: Deepcool TESSERACT SW ATX Mid Tower Case ($26.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($42.30 @ Newegg)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($97.89 @ OutletPC)
    Total: $751.35
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-19 18:59 EDT-0400
  • BehnReady - Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - link

    It is not legal to use OEM licenses for personal use, so the build price in this article is misleading.
    http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicens...
  • DLimmer - Thursday, October 22, 2015 - link

    First, in response to OEM: these systems are not for the builder's own use (not that the builders are offering tech support, though). Secondly, for $10 more, a full version can be had: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832588506 so the totals are still within the 3% limit of $800.

    Secondly, why is everyone choosing the GTX 960... even at upwards of $200? Is it only for newer tech or is it for lower power consumption? Because it can't be for pure value (performance/dollar). According to a notable site with monthly "Best GPU for the Money" articles...
    "The 380 [is] ahead of Nvidia’s GeForce GTX 960 in just about every one of our benchmarks at 1920x1080 and 2560x1440. Here’s the thing, though—in some games, you might get away with playable frame rates on QHD displays. We’re still saying these boards are better for 1080p though, particularly if you insist on cranking up the detail settings like we do.

    The GeForce is a more efficient card, and is only rated for 120W to the Radeon’s 190W. But at the same $190 street price, AMD does play value to its benefit more effectively, scoring our recommendation this month."

    BTW, great job getting the price close to $750. Almost have room for a SSD in there.

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