Am i the only one that finds these cards kind of hilarious? These are 120 watt TDP cards, yet they all have massive multi fan coolers and flashy bits, some even have LEDs!
Compare this to the fermi days, when a mid range ~150 watt TDP card got a single fan cooler that was nothing special, dual fan for a high end model. These new coolers are ridiculous for a $250 GPU.
Yeah, I've found that to be interesting. I think the cooler "inflation" might also have something to do with why we don't see single slot cards. For whatever reason, "big" coolers are preferable in all aspects.
Same reason RAM heatsinks still exist, despite performing no function whatsoever. People perceive "big cooler = more good" regardless of all other factors.
Considering all the memory on GDDR5 cards uses 15-20w TOTAL I don't see why even passive cooling would be necessary. That's about 2.5w per die over a 40mm2 area. GDDR5X uses even less power...
Back when memory was still 65nm and ran at 3.3v, yeah, ramsinks helped. Even since DDR2 and 1.8-2.0v power envelopes it's just asthetics.
RAM sinks were created for RDRAM wayyy back in the day because the heat would accumulate on each ram chip. With DDR Ram the heat is spread over the whole stick, so it's purely for aesthetics. This is doubly so for DDR with low voltage.
Big coolers are objectively better if they are well-engineered. Tiny loud fans stink. The only exception is if a vapor chamber design is used in which case the overall space needed for part of the cooling (not the fan) is reduced.
I understand it to some extent... bigger faster cards always had bigger faster coolers, and the biggest fastest fanciest ones came on the most expensive cards. Plus, bigger fans = slower speeds = less noise, better temps vs smaller ones. That said, I think the whole thing has gotten quite ridiculous. We could probably see single slot designs on longer cards, or shorter card lengths with dual slot designs with no real problems, but I guess thats not what people associate with performance and quality these days.
A giant 3 fan dual slot cooler probably is overkill, but 120w is still more than you would want to try and dissipate with just a single slot cooler. Most people put a larger cooler on their 65-95w CPU than the total volume available to a single slot GPU cooler. You could do it in single slot, but it would be geforce FX 5800 ultra levels of obnoxiously loud. I think nvidia even did a joke about this back in the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOVjZqC1AE4
8800 GT had a single-slot cooler and drew slightly less power than this card, I'm sure an AIB can figure something out. I'd personally be quite happy to lose the DVI port in favour of a single-slot card.
Back in the GTX 600 series days, Asus made triple-slot thick GPU coolers. I recommended one to a friend, on the premise that they costed the same as other custom fan solutions on other GPU vendors, but you get more cooling capacity due to the thicker heatsink.
That didn't pan out into the GTX 700 series and beyond.
The thing is, GPU manufacturers are extremely hesitant to do ANYTHING outside the 2-slot width cooler now, even if a 3-slot blower style cooler would probably make a lot of sense for directly removing waste-heat from a computer.
Bigger coolers and more fans does make for a quieter card, so there's that. It's not my primary concern, but it's still something I can appreciate the value of.
You're definitely right. My first thought was wow, these are really overdone graphics cards. Prior to clicking the link I honestly expected these cards to be aimed at ITX/MATX not full size
You don't like a cooler that you can't hear while gaming or something? Some also switch off the fans completely
Though I understand it a bit Like Asus strix cards They're just reusing the same cooler again (also on rx480) Makes sense from a company s Point of view
Its about maximizing your overclock headroom, and quieter operation. Larger more effective fans and HS can turn slower and are typically quieter because of that, while having the capability of speeding up if need be for a max OC.
I remember years ago one of my friend's relatives bought an 8600 GTS with a MASSIVE cooler, thinking it's going to perform brilliantly, not knowing that it had just a quarter of the shaders found on 8800 GTX.
(That card was the reason I abandoned my "buy mid-range" practice for that generation and go for the more expensive 8800 GTS 320MB, which turned out to be the better choice in the long run.
I remember being a bit mad and quite disappointed with NVidia's decision in midrange. Fortunately they came back to their senses with 9600 GT and never repeated that quarter-shaders travesty ever again.)
One of the advantages of bigger coolers is that they usually run much quieter. I personally prefer smaller cards, but if I can't get a quiet one, I'd buy a bigger version.
generally the voltage requirements scale down as well with a node shrink. The problem you are describing becomes an issue when the voltage doesn't scale down, i.e., boost clock/overclocking.
Nvidias vapor chamber was really good at combating this but is kind of a solution looking for a problem these days. Even though the process node has shrunk, and transistor count has gone up, die area has stayed mostly the same so cooling hasn't become a huge challenge, you are still removing the same amount of heat from the same surface area.
I suspect evga is going to introduce a badass single slot 1060, and at some point someone might introduce a passive cooled card. Asus did a DirectCU Radeon 7750 (80w?) awhile back that had a pretty beefy dual slot heat pipe on it, wouldn't be too hard to make a larger version cover 120w!
These in pictures Are highend versions, so They will be more expensive than founders editions! So 300$+ 350$ maybe, with best coolers. But this is so small chip that one rotor cheap and light cooler is enough, and those versions will definitely be close 250$. Even AMD 480 Stock cooler would be overkill with these!
The reference PCB looked pretty small, albeit with a long-ish cooler as well (beyond the PCB). But at least the PCB size wouldn't make a smaller card impossible.
I'm sure someone is going to make a small 1060 A quote:
the GeForce GTX 1060’s circuit board is small—only about seven inches long, which is roughly equal to the RX 480’s PCB and a mere inch longer than the remarkably tiny Radeon Nano.
I've been rocking mid tower ATX boxes for the last 15 years. They may be bulkier than the smaller cases, however they are a lot more better for cooling, expansion and maintenance. I can put what I want into my machines without having to compromise.
I used to like tiny cases as well, simply because it fits better anywhere you put it. But I realized the GPU fans were literally sucking air from the practically nonexistent space between the bottom of my case and the card, so I eventually moved up a couple years ago to mid towers just to have that extra airspace for the fans to circulate air from. It also makes cabling a way easier.
It's just kind of ridiculous when i look inside because I have a mini ITX motherboard with a giant GPU and then a ton of empty space between it and the bottom mounted PSU, but it handles high temperatures so much better.
There needs to be an Mini-ITX version of the GTX 1060: Height: 111.15mm Length: 172.72mm Waiting for EVGA to come out with an update to their GTX 960. A single fan is all that's necessary.
You're far more patient then me. I was considering just snipping the DVI port off with wirecutters and leaving short nubs of wire still soldered in the PCB.
I bought a super thick really long DVI cable so I could keep my computer in a closet across my room to reduce noise. I didn't find anything nearly as long in DP.
If you look at the bracket on the card you can make out the double latches. You can also barely make out the other ports under the DVI if you look between the DVI port and the connector screw posts.
Will asus actually be able to supply these cards? in the UK they are laughing stock currently, over 2000 customers at a retailer pre ordered and only 8 shipped, now they seem to be telling the retailer they cannot deliver the cards so offering them the non OC variant for the same price as the cards missing.
Remember my GTX 460 1GB with the stock single large center fan and it ran pretty quiet and reasonably cool. A bit of overkill here, but I suppose that's OK.
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TheinsanegamerN - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Am i the only one that finds these cards kind of hilarious? These are 120 watt TDP cards, yet they all have massive multi fan coolers and flashy bits, some even have LEDs!Compare this to the fermi days, when a mid range ~150 watt TDP card got a single fan cooler that was nothing special, dual fan for a high end model. These new coolers are ridiculous for a $250 GPU.
ImSpartacus - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Yeah, I've found that to be interesting. I think the cooler "inflation" might also have something to do with why we don't see single slot cards. For whatever reason, "big" coolers are preferable in all aspects.edzieba - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Same reason RAM heatsinks still exist, despite performing no function whatsoever. People perceive "big cooler = more good" regardless of all other factors.menting - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
RAM heatsinks are useful, provided that they are installed properly (which the majority aren't)TheinsanegamerN - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Modern RAM isnt reliant on a good heatsink like SDRAM was. DDR4, even OCed, doesnt really get hot at all.Flunk - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
They aren't generally installed properly because they're totally pointless on modern RAM.Samus - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
Considering all the memory on GDDR5 cards uses 15-20w TOTAL I don't see why even passive cooling would be necessary. That's about 2.5w per die over a 40mm2 area. GDDR5X uses even less power...Back when memory was still 65nm and ran at 3.3v, yeah, ramsinks helped. Even since DDR2 and 1.8-2.0v power envelopes it's just asthetics.
Eden-K121D - Monday, July 11, 2016 - link
aesthetics matterpoohbear - Monday, July 18, 2016 - link
RAM sinks were created for RDRAM wayyy back in the day because the heat would accumulate on each ram chip. With DDR Ram the heat is spread over the whole stick, so it's purely for aesthetics. This is doubly so for DDR with low voltage.Oxford Guy - Friday, July 15, 2016 - link
Big coolers are objectively better if they are well-engineered. Tiny loud fans stink. The only exception is if a vapor chamber design is used in which case the overall space needed for part of the cooling (not the fan) is reduced.owan - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I understand it to some extent... bigger faster cards always had bigger faster coolers, and the biggest fastest fanciest ones came on the most expensive cards. Plus, bigger fans = slower speeds = less noise, better temps vs smaller ones. That said, I think the whole thing has gotten quite ridiculous. We could probably see single slot designs on longer cards, or shorter card lengths with dual slot designs with no real problems, but I guess thats not what people associate with performance and quality these days.IndianaKrom - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
A giant 3 fan dual slot cooler probably is overkill, but 120w is still more than you would want to try and dissipate with just a single slot cooler. Most people put a larger cooler on their 65-95w CPU than the total volume available to a single slot GPU cooler. You could do it in single slot, but it would be geforce FX 5800 ultra levels of obnoxiously loud. I think nvidia even did a joke about this back in the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOVjZqC1AE4The_Assimilator - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
8800 GT had a single-slot cooler and drew slightly less power than this card, I'm sure an AIB can figure something out. I'd personally be quite happy to lose the DVI port in favour of a single-slot card.Oxford Guy - Friday, July 15, 2016 - link
and was loudOxford Guy - Friday, July 15, 2016 - link
and had overheating issuesJoeyJoJo123 - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Back in the GTX 600 series days, Asus made triple-slot thick GPU coolers. I recommended one to a friend, on the premise that they costed the same as other custom fan solutions on other GPU vendors, but you get more cooling capacity due to the thicker heatsink.That didn't pan out into the GTX 700 series and beyond.
The thing is, GPU manufacturers are extremely hesitant to do ANYTHING outside the 2-slot width cooler now, even if a 3-slot blower style cooler would probably make a lot of sense for directly removing waste-heat from a computer.
Maltz - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Bigger coolers and more fans does make for a quieter card, so there's that. It's not my primary concern, but it's still something I can appreciate the value of.MadDuffy - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Agreed. The Gigabyte 1070 Mini card looks good, anything more for the 1060 is probably over-compensation for something.HomeworldFound - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
You're definitely right. My first thought was wow, these are really overdone graphics cards. Prior to clicking the link I honestly expected these cards to be aimed at ITX/MATX not full sizePeter2k - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
You don't like a cooler that you can't hear while gaming or something?Some also switch off the fans completely
Though I understand it a bit
Like Asus strix cards
They're just reusing the same cooler again (also on rx480)
Makes sense from a company s
Point of view
HideOut - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Its about maximizing your overclock headroom, and quieter operation. Larger more effective fans and HS can turn slower and are typically quieter because of that, while having the capability of speeding up if need be for a max OC.eddman - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I remember years ago one of my friend's relatives bought an 8600 GTS with a MASSIVE cooler, thinking it's going to perform brilliantly, not knowing that it had just a quarter of the shaders found on 8800 GTX.(That card was the reason I abandoned my "buy mid-range" practice for that generation and go for the more expensive 8800 GTS 320MB, which turned out to be the better choice in the long run.
I remember being a bit mad and quite disappointed with NVidia's decision in midrange. Fortunately they came back to their senses with 9600 GT and never repeated that quarter-shaders travesty ever again.)
One of the advantages of bigger coolers is that they usually run much quieter. I personally prefer smaller cards, but if I can't get a quiet one, I'd buy a bigger version.
I'm looking forward to smaller 1060 cards.
Geranium - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
No, NVIDIA cards are very efficient, thats why they need three fans or CLC to stay cool.nunya112 - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
dont forget. when you shrinking the die. it becomes a mini nuclear reactor in there.the smaller things get. the harder it is to get rid of heat.
Samus - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
generally the voltage requirements scale down as well with a node shrink. The problem you are describing becomes an issue when the voltage doesn't scale down, i.e., boost clock/overclocking.Nvidias vapor chamber was really good at combating this but is kind of a solution looking for a problem these days. Even though the process node has shrunk, and transistor count has gone up, die area has stayed mostly the same so cooling hasn't become a huge challenge, you are still removing the same amount of heat from the same surface area.
sharath.naik - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I was expecting at least one mini-ITX length design. Especially since gigabyte released one for 1070. I was surprised by this missed opportunity.Samus - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
I suspect evga is going to introduce a badass single slot 1060, and at some point someone might introduce a passive cooled card. Asus did a DirectCU Radeon 7750 (80w?) awhile back that had a pretty beefy dual slot heat pipe on it, wouldn't be too hard to make a larger version cover 120w!chrcoluk - Sunday, July 17, 2016 - link
not really, the FE cards are under cooled as evident by their temp throttling issues.Whilst my 2.5 slot palit 1070 maxes out at 62C.
Stochastic - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
"it remains to be see how many of these designs will actually approach the $249 MSRP NVIDIA has announced.Stochastic - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
This is the critical question for me. At $250 an overclocked 1060 is a great value. For $280+? Not so much.haukionkannel - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
These in pictures Are highend versions, so They will be more expensive than founders editions!So 300$+ 350$ maybe, with best coolers.
But this is so small chip that one rotor cheap and light cooler is enough, and those versions will definitely be close 250$. Even AMD 480 Stock cooler would be overkill with these!
nevcairiel - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Those high-end models at least haven't been that much more expensive for the 1070 or 1080 than FE, more like about the same level.Stochastic - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
This is the critical question for me. At $250 an overclocked 1060 is a great value. For $280+? Not so much.Michael Bay - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
So more a question of when.nevcairiel - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
The high-end models will not, but many vendors typically also have entry-level models with bland coolers for the typical MSRP.nirolf - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I hope we'll shorter cards as well, not all of us have big towers.nevcairiel - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
The reference PCB looked pretty small, albeit with a long-ish cooler as well (beyond the PCB). But at least the PCB size wouldn't make a smaller card impossible.Peter2k - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Gigabyte has a 1070 for mini ITXI'm sure someone is going to make a small 1060
A quote:
the GeForce GTX 1060’s circuit board is small—only about seven inches long, which is roughly equal to the RX 480’s PCB and a mere inch longer than the remarkably tiny Radeon Nano.
bigboxes - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I've been rocking mid tower ATX boxes for the last 15 years. They may be bulkier than the smaller cases, however they are a lot more better for cooling, expansion and maintenance. I can put what I want into my machines without having to compromise.metayoshi - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I used to like tiny cases as well, simply because it fits better anywhere you put it. But I realized the GPU fans were literally sucking air from the practically nonexistent space between the bottom of my case and the card, so I eventually moved up a couple years ago to mid towers just to have that extra airspace for the fans to circulate air from. It also makes cabling a way easier.It's just kind of ridiculous when i look inside because I have a mini ITX motherboard with a giant GPU and then a ton of empty space between it and the bottom mounted PSU, but it handles high temperatures so much better.
Eidigean - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
There needs to be an Mini-ITX version of the GTX 1060:Height: 111.15mm
Length: 172.72mm
Waiting for EVGA to come out with an update to their GTX 960. A single fan is all that's necessary.
Mr Perfect - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Now could someone please make a blower card that doesn't have half of the exhaust blocked by a DVI port?Eidigean - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I'm thinking about just desoldering the DVI port from the board.Mr Perfect - Sunday, July 10, 2016 - link
You're far more patient then me. I was considering just snipping the DVI port off with wirecutters and leaving short nubs of wire still soldered in the PCB.TheUnhandledException - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
I don't really get why DVI port at all. I mean even if someone had a monitor w/ only DVI they do make DP to DVI cables.barleyguy - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
DVI-I converts to VGA as well, which Displayport won"t do without DA conversion.Mr Perfect - Sunday, July 10, 2016 - link
True, but these cards all look to have DVI-D ports. So even those won't convert to VGA.Oxford Guy - Friday, July 15, 2016 - link
I bought a super thick really long DVI cable so I could keep my computer in a closet across my room to reduce noise. I didn't find anything nearly as long in DP.Geranium - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
This is unfair ASUS, you guys making 3 version of GTX 1060 but only 1 version of RX 480.bill.rookard - Friday, July 8, 2016 - link
Is it just me, or in the top image in the article for the Asus cards, is that not a single slot GTX 1060?doggface - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
Nup. All of em are dual slot.They just look thinner than they are.
masouth - Tuesday, July 19, 2016 - link
It's just you =)If you look at the bracket on the card you can make out the double latches. You can also barely make out the other ports under the DVI if you look between the DVI port and the connector screw posts.
Samus - Saturday, July 9, 2016 - link
I'll wait to see what evga has planned to show these amateurs ;)chrcoluk - Sunday, July 17, 2016 - link
Will asus actually be able to supply these cards? in the UK they are laughing stock currently, over 2000 customers at a retailer pre ordered and only 8 shipped, now they seem to be telling the retailer they cannot deliver the cards so offering them the non OC variant for the same price as the cards missing.Leyawiin - Monday, July 18, 2016 - link
Remember my GTX 460 1GB with the stock single large center fan and it ran pretty quiet and reasonably cool. A bit of overkill here, but I suppose that's OK.